Showing posts with label Gaming Ettiquette. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Gaming Ettiquette. Show all posts

Friday, April 8, 2016

Creating Safe Spaces

I really planned on working on my term papers that are due in t-minus three weeks. Yet I keep seeing things that pull my attention away from the papers. Sure, I probably didn’t need to watch RuPaul’s Drag Race this week, but it helps me unwind and switch gears. And I will admit that I should probably just turn off my FaceBook account when I am in crunch mode. The real distraction comes from various posts and articles I read where women continually get treated as outsiders in fandom.

What do I mean? I belong to various gaming communities on FaceBook where we share ideas about the game, as well as problems we encounter when running/playing. Recently, a female player was discussing actions in a game that were forced on her. Now, similar discussions have been had by male players and they are generally met with comments like, “I would talk with the GM and tell him that it wasn’t cool to force your character to do something like that” or “You should probably just leave the group, it doesn’t sound like it is a very good space.” Yet, this time, voiced from a woman, she was met with comments like “You shouldn’t whine so much” and when she voiced that she would probably kill off her character and leave the group, she received responses like “Killing yourself and ragequitting a group isn’t attractive.” The fact is, this player was expressing the fact that her character had been impregnated against her will, which amounts to rape, and rape isn’t attractive. When the player attempted to point out that the people making these comments were being sexist, they attempted to again silence her using shame tactics.

When I have seen various posts about the terror of white males in gaming, I have generally cast them aside. I fell into the trap of “This hasn’t happened in my games and it must be really isolated.” The reality is that MY games are really isolated. The games I have run with female players have generally been pretty great and I didn’t think they had really had any situations like this. In retrospect, I realize that one of my games did have a female player that felt uncomfortable and she left, though it wasn’t because of something that had been done to her character and more about how over-the-top one of the players was in his playstyle. As a player, I have certainly been in games where things like pregnancy has been forced on female players and it made me genuinely uncomfortable in the moment (and still bugs me years later). Because of the group I play with, we don’t have many people that play across gender lines, so I have been trying to think if I had ever encountered a male GM doing the same to a female character run by a male player—I can’t think of any. Even if there had been, it would have been equally frustrating, unless this was something we had agreed when we began or with discussion between the player and the GM.

I can’t know what it is like for each female player out there. I can only come at it from my own experiences as a gay male. After I came out, I always set my characters as gay at creation. Most games, it wasn’t discussed because we weren’t really exploring romantic or sexual situations in our game. When it did come up, the GM would just default that all characters are heterosexual and assume that all of us would be beguiled by them (which in and of itself is a terrible trope to use, but not the point of this discussion). Once they started to realize that my character was gay, they slowly started figuring out that perhaps male prostitutes should be seen in taverns, but it generally stopped short of the GM having to act out male-on-male flirtation.

In the game that saw our female companion get raped, the GM was very tactful with my gay character. The game was set in the 20s and he had spent time researching what gay clubs were like at this time. When we would have dream sequences and such, he would discuss both the happiness of me dreaming about my partner as well as the agony of nightmares of losing him. Certainly, there were plenty opportunities for this character to experience horrific torture and sexual assault at the hands of the cultists, but that line was never crossed with me.

Now, the important thing to consider isn’t just the ways that we treat women inside the game, where all too often they are treated as objects to be played with in ways that we generally don’t with our male companions. We also need to consider how we treat them in our community. I have tried very hard, especially as an adult, to make the gaming environment and geek culture an inclusive place. I remember feeling like I was the only gay gamer at our local convention. But, at no point was my identity as a gamer/geek questioned. I acknowledge that other gay gamers and geeks may have had other experiences, but I have generally been accepted into the boy’s club. But, I have watched as women have had to prove their geek cred, by discussing at length how they got into fandom and being tested about various games. When you watch the body language of the questioners, you can see they are ready to pounce on anything that they could use to discredit her. Or they make assumptions that her geeky shirt, “must belong to her boyfriend.”

We are cultured to be dismissive, which is rather unfortunate. This comment shouldn’t be read as affirming of male behavior, through justification. Rather a simple statement of how we tend to react. Our parents, mothers and fathers, dismiss our playing pretend and sometimes dismiss the way we are feeling as ways of helping us grow up. I dismissed the various posts by removing them from my feed or ignoring them without a real thought. Others have verbally dismissed women by trying to silence their complaints. But these dismissive actions serve only to perpetuate the problem. If someone like me, or you, dismisses this type of behavior, we can’t stand up for our fellow games. This means that we aren’t actively working towards an inclusive environment. Maybe we justify our dismissiveness because we don’t want to but it or we don’t want the negative attention we know we will get. When we do that though, we are resting all of the burden on the woman who spoke up and the negative feedback towards them is meant to silence them and force them to put up and shut up or get out of fandom. If we really want to put an end to this type of behavior and work towards inclusion, then we need to be willing to step up and help shoulder some of the attitudes people will throw out there.

While there are those that will read this as me taking up the torch of social justice. And perhaps I am, but I want to be able to be in a fandom where we are all accepted— a place where we can just connect with one another and enjoy the company and the awesome discussions that are possible when we gather with people with similar interests. It shouldn’t matter what gender or race you are or what your background is. While our little playful tests to see how much we have in common can be great, they shouldn’t serve as some sort of sorting hat that determines who gets to be included and who gets to be excluded.

I want to belong to a community where mutual respect is central. This means that we aren’t purposefully trying to create situations where we can make one another uncomfortable just because we can. And if we have made someone uncomfortable, they are empowered to tell us and we are respectful enough to accept the criticism and apologize. I know this part can be difficult. Sometimes, it can feel like the criticism is targeted at us and telling us that we are bad people and that hurts. Getting called out as sexist, misogynistic, homophobic, transphobic, abelist, sizest, etc., can hurt. We may not realize that what we are doing or saying sounds like that because it isn’t our intention. Or maybe we don’t want other to think poorly of us. All of us ultimately want to be accepted. Labels that “Other” us hurt, which is precisely why we use them. That little face slap can be a good wakeup call. Too often, unfortunately, it can backfire and cause people to push harder against the issue and ignite bigger fires. However, another one our social methods of behavior correction can be beneficial when a person digs in their heels and refuses to change and escalates—avoidance. We don’t like to be cut off from things, but it can be better in the long run to cut someone off and isolate them than to give tacit approval of their behavior because we don’t want to lose friends or have difficult conversations.

Whether we want to accept it or not, white males (especially heterosexuals) have power in the community as a whole. For way too long, fandom has been a boys club. And certainly those of us that have been in it for a while have endured some knocks from people outside of fandom. They teased us and questioned our manliness for playing make belief. We have been torn down and Othered for this thing we are passionate about. Those of us who have experienced that, probably hated every minute of it. It sucks to be belittled. Some of us banded together even tighter because the community we created was a safe place for us to talk about fantasy, science fiction, and all of our favorite characters and games.

It may have felt like this special safe place was invaded when women and non-white men started to find their ways into fandom. But it wasn’t. We were gaining new friends that had the same things in common. Instead of recognizing kindred spirits, some of us recognized that we had the ability to turn the tables. The powerlessness we were made to feel by the “cool” kids was ours to inflict on these new folks. And in doing so, the much coveted sense of power and control was ours to take back. Somehow, in the moment, we forgot what it was like to be the Other--- we got drunk on the power and didn’t care. This was our domain and you needed to earn your way. But no one needed to. All of it could have been so much different. While we can’t change the past, we can damn well make the present a much better place.

It starts by speaking up. Now, speaking up doesn’t mean start a flame war and it doesn’t mean we need to troll everyone (my genuine apologize to any of my readers who identify as a troll). It does mean recognizing sexist/disrespectful behavior. Whether it is inside your game or in various real or virtual spaces where our community comes together, we need to speak up and help put an end to it. While most of this post has been directed at disrespectful behavior towards women, the same is true for speaking out against people being disrespectful towards people of color as well as all of the various diverse personas we find in our community.

Also, recognize that someone may interpret your action different than you intended and they may call you out for it. I know it can be difficult, but put aside your ego for a moment and try to figure out where the miscommunication came from and work together to create a safe space.

Be sensitive and recognize that sometimes folks just need someone to listen. Don’t try to justify what the other person did or said, but recognize and validate the experience. We may not understand where they are coming form, but we can probably find some sort of experience where we can relate. Clarify if the person needs back up or if they just needed to vent. Sometimes, once we get all of the emotions of frustration or anger (or other emotion) out, we recognize that we may have over reacted and just needed to get it out. But, other times we may need some back up to help us stand up for ourselves.

We may also need to recognize that folks who are feeling alienated need a safe space where it is just folks like them. So this may mean and all female-identifying group or a queer group. This gives them that same safe space that many of originally created in response to the experiences we had. Seeking or creating a group like this does not equate to sexist or racist or any other ist (including elitist). It just means that they want to have a safe space and they may not feel like they are getting that. Also, if your immediate reaction is that there needs to be a men’s only group, remember that we had it for a long time and there are groups within the community who are actively trying to make this a men’s only group. This one especially gets me as a gay man, because this mentality is the same as folks wanting straight pride celebrations or white pride marches. Support our friends who feel they need a safe space by empowering them to do what they need and that you are always willing to act as go between or work with them when the deal with the community as a whole.

We need to recognize that there is a problem. There is this pain in our community and we all need to work together to create an inclusive space. One where people of all agents, shapes, sizes, ethnicity, races, gender identity/expression, orientation, and really just all of the things that make us unique, can feel safe and enjoy the company of people who have the same passions in common. All of the things that make us unique mean that there are all of those great experiences that we can explore and play with in our games and all of the different backgrounds mean endless points of discussion. The problem isn't going to end over night. But together, we can make this right. 

Friday, June 8, 2012

Things Return in Spades

I am sure I am not alone when I say I have been forced to get rid of some of my gaming habits over the years. Sometimes it has been to make room for other gaming habits. Other times it has been to get money to live. Parting with things has always been hard for me. Books and cards are like old friends that I want to keep around but just can’t.


Prior to leaving Helena, I had to get rid of cards for a game I played back in High School. It was an old TCG based on Highlander. You may notice as I continue to post that I have a thing for Highlander. I own all of the seasons of the TV show in one format or another. And I have a Director’s Cut of the original film. Anyways, when the card game came out, I spent much of my free money (which was a bit at the time) on cards. I had a huge collection including hard-to-get promo cards. The company that produced it went out of business some time ago, so there hasn’t been anything new released in a while. After a while, the group that I played with ultimately stopped playing and changed back to Magic. A dear friend said that he was willing to take the collection as he was trying to keep the game alive with a few of his friends. I let them go as they were just taking up space in my little apartment.
When I got to Missoula, I again had to make peace with getting rid of some books. For the angst-y part of my teenage years, I became quite fond of World of Darkness (old school not the new stuff). Primarily I played Vampire: the Masquerade but also had most of the Werewolf: the Apolcalypse and Mage: the Ascension books. Thankfully, Andy at Gallant games understood what it meant to be in dire need of cash. I moved here with enough money to pay for gas in the vehicles it took to haul my stuff from Helena. What I could make from my books had to go to feeding me until I got a job and became a bit more stable. He bought them all.


So a year or so ago, a friend on the MisCon Committee said that he needed to get rid of some old World of Darkness books. He was no longer using them and they were just taking up space. At the time, I had gotten a jones-ing to play the games of my youth again and was trying to put together a workable library. While I could easily have reacquired the entire library in digital form via various torrent sites, I would rather have the hard copies while I work on game bits. So he brought them to a meeting and the moment I laid eyes on them I beamed. I was looking at my old friends. Not all of them. But many of the books he had brought were the ones I had parted with several years before. He confirmed my suspicion that he had acquired them as used books from Gallant Games. A couple of months later, a friend from Helena said that he had lost his storage space and asked if I knew anyone who was interested in a bunch of World of Darkness books. I said that I would be glad to take them off of his hands. I know have all of the books that I had before moving here plus several more.
Just a few minutes ago, I returned from reacquiring my old Highlander cards. It turns out that the friend that I had turned them over to had given them to a mutual friend. I had posted a couple times on Facebook how much I missed playing the game and the new owner said that he had them. After talking to him for a bit he agreed to part ways with them. In addition to the cards I had, I have acquired hundreds more. I now have enough to make several good decks to play with friends and reminisce about times long past.


I suppose this is like geek karma. Put good things out into the geek world and the geek world will return three fold. My suggestions for all geeks, keep putting out good karma and it will return.

Tuesday, June 5, 2012

Hi-Tech vs. Lo-Tech: What to Bring to The Table?

I started gaming in the 6th grade (circa 1991). When I first started, things were pretty low tech. Game consisted of a hand written character sheet, a pencil, a handful of polyhedral dice, and scratch paper/post-its for side conversations with GM or players. We had hard bound rule books that were dog-eared beyond belief.

That was so last century.

Today, I still have a library of gaming books, but I don’t lug them around to games. Instead, I have digital copies on my computer. When I prepare for game, I can load them on the laptop or my kindle. I have a dice roller on my phone, instead of sticky notes I can simply IM or text a player. Character sheets can and often are Excel spreadsheets. Who needs a GM screen when I can do most of the work from my laptop? With so many electronics now making their way to the game table the question comes up, “do you even really need to gather at someone’s house to play?” Of course not, we have Skype too. Or, depending on your style, you can play by email (although, this too reminds me of some of my old games prior to Skype).
So how much tech is too much? For me, having gamed across all levels of tech at this point, I like a nice blend. I like to physically be with my game group, so I am not much of a Skype fan. There is just something about gathering with friends and interacting with them in person. Honestly, if I wanted to interact with virtual people, I’d just log into World of Warcraft or Star Wars: the Old Republic. Now, I am sure someone out there is going to go off that Skype-ing and playing an MMO are different, since you are can see the person. However, to me, it just seems so artificial.

Depending on the group and what tech they have, I may have my Kindle with digital versions of game books available as well as core books in hard-copy. If I am GMing, I do prefer to use my laptop. I don’t like writing my gaming ideas out on paper any more. My hands cramp up and I can definitely get more word count out quickly when I have a keyboard. My laptop also has a copy of the rule book for handy reference as well as all of my adventure content. Scene descriptors and pictures that I have saved to give the players an idea of what they are seeing.
As for dice, call me old fashion, but I love the feeling of dice in my hands. Plus the sound they make is like music to my ears. Even if I use handfuls of dice to play, I would prefer the real thing. As for my players, I am fine with them randomly generating their numbers however they prefer. However, if they are consistently passing every test, I may ask them to show me their rolls. But that hasn’t been necessary yet.

Character sheets – again I prefer low tech here. I don’t care if we are using the “official” character sheet for the game or hand written accounta of stats and gear, I generally prefer paper to pixel. NPCs are a different matter. Those are on the laptop. But when I am playing, I would prefer actual paper to prevent distraction from the shiny interwebz. I also prefer my players to use paper for the same reason.
As for notes, I prefer hi-tech alternatives. Again, I can get the point across faster if I can type. Since I don’t like my players to have laptops, this usually means text messages. Of course the downside to this is the delay that can happen from send to receive. So far, I haven’t had this negatively affect a game. But I have had folks share with me that they have had some unfortunate events happen due to the delay that relying on cell towers has caused.

I currently play in a game that is extremely lo-tech. In fact, the only tech at work during the game is the GMs laptop to provide background music. Otherwise, he has provided us print outs of useful events happening during the era we are playing in (the game is set in the ‘20s), common phrases used during the setting, hard copies of books for reference, loads of scrap paper for notes and paper character sheets. The GM strongly frowns on any modern tech at the game table. It is very retro to me, but I survive.
What is your preference when it comes to tech? How much is too much? What has worked for you and what hasn’t? Feel free to share using the comments below.

Saturday, June 2, 2012

Don't Be a Dick


Wheaton's Law is one of the most crucial laws in social situations. It took me a while to learn this rule. Looking back now, I wish I would have practiced it from the onset. It is an important law regardless of whether you are a player, a GM, or just a schmo living in the real world.

As a player, I remember the first time I had been called out for being a dick. It was the first time I gamed outside of my normal group. I had joined a group that played at a local hobby store after hours. It only took a couple of game sessions for my dick-ish tendencies to come to the forefront. I wasn’t necessarily being a jerk. But my words and actions during that game made people uncomfortable. The GM, who owned the store, pulled me aside after one particular game session and told me that I was no longer welcome in the group. And if I kept it up, I wasn’t welcome in the store.
I don’t remember what it was exactly that pushed peoples buttons.  It could have been that I was a socially awkward person that just didn’t know how to act or react in mixed company. Regardless of the reason, being asked to leave the group had a huge impact on me. It caused me to become a bit nervous about gaming with people I didn’t know. And the idea caused a bit of anxiety for me.

A few years later I gave it another go. A local group, that had one of my regular players, was looking for another person. I made a rogue-ish character. I didn’t originally mean to be anti-social and if I had a better idea of what the other players were playing, I would have been happy to create a character that would have fit with the group better. Instead, I created a character that I wanted to experiment with. He was a bit of a jackass, especially when someone became too high and mighty for his liking. The tipping point was when my character put a little soap in the person’s water bottle (in game). I was asked to leave the group that night. I was told that my character was just not fitting in.
As a person that was already self-conscious about being gay, fat and a geek, I had just been pushed out by a group that I had hoped would accept me. After that, I developed full on stage freight when it came to gaming with people I didn’t know. I would still attend conventions, but I avoided gaming like the plague. A friend begged me to come game with him at one convention. And I just sat there and said nothing beyond what I did in combat. It was so un-fun that I resolved to not do it again.

Of course, I had brought it down on myself. I was the person that had acted inappropriately in both cases and I couldn’t really blame the other players or the GMs. They were doing the right thing and kicking the dick out so that the rest of the people could have fun. However, there is an art to letting people down tactfully.
I mentioned in yesterday’s post that creating social contracts with people can be useful when gaming. I think they become incredibly important when a new player joins your group or when dealing with people you have never gamed with before. It helps to set the social boundaries for what is appropriate and what is not appropriate. As geeks can sometimes be socially awkward, it can help them develop into better people and better gamers. Remember, not everyone understands social cues given by other people and may not realize that what they felt was harmless actually crossed the line.

This is where Wheaton’s Law affects the GM as well. Knowing how to tactfully handle a Dick is important, lest you become a Dick as well. I am a firm believer in a three strike policy, with open communication between all parties. If you have a player that is being a Dick or is creating an environment that is not fun for others, gently help them understand specifically what they did and how it impacted other people. Give them a warning that it isn’t appropriate. This may also be a good time to discuss the possibility of creating a new character, if the action/event/what have you was appropriate for the character but inappropriate for your game. If you have created social contracts with the group revisit them. If it happens again, repeat the process. Some people are slower to learn than others. Provide another warning. If it happens a third time, explain the situation that you are in. And explain with great care and compassion that the style in which the player is playing is not appropriate for the story that the group is telling.
Do I think that there are situations where the three strike rule should be over looked? Absolutely. If the person is purposefully taking actions to harm (mentally or physically) another player then it is important to address the situation right away. And depending on what it is, it may be appropriate to explain that because of their conduct they are not welcome at the game. But be mindful. In many cases, the player is a friend and can be hurt by how you break it to them. Don’t be afraid to have the tough conversation, but approach it in a mature manner. Ask questions to gain a full understanding of why they did/said what they did. As the GM, you are the leader in many cases and you need to watch out for your group.

There are also some instances where you may not have time to provide them with three – strikes. Conventions are a great example. Generally, you have four hours to run your game and that is it. A Dick can be king in these situations, as they are free to do, say and act however they feel without regards for anyone else at the table. I don’t have any personal experience in this area, as I only started gaming at conventions again this year and only in one game. However, my gut reaction to this is to address the situation right away. I think calling a five minute “bio” break can be useful and provides you a chance to talk to the Dick. As a player, I would rather it be dealt this way than to be miserable for the remainder of the game.
Sometimes, as a player, you have to handle a GM that is a Dick. Having been a player in game where the GM was a Dick, I know this can be difficult. However, it is important to let them know they are being a Dick. I made the mistake of letting it brew inside until I just needed a break and considered leaving the game over it. I realized this wasn’t really fair to everyone involved and finally worked up the nerve to talk to my GM. For those that may not know, I don’t really like conflict especially with friends. But sometimes conflict can’t be avoided.

Again, approach is important. Sure it is easy to be passive aggressive about it and make snide comments to the GM. But this can shift the Dick mantle from the GM to you. I am a fan of the idea that cooler heads will prevail. For me, that means take a day or two after the even to think about it. Weigh in on whether you are just being sensitive or if it was really an issue. Then talk with the GM. Be polite and as tactful as possible. Explain your side of what happened and how you felt about it. A polite GM should be able to handle it. But make sure that you are both talking about it. I have ADHD and sometimes, you are talking and as much as I want to be paying attention, my mind might be thinking about three dozen other things at the same moment. If your GM is like me, it is also a good idea to follow up a few days later or even right before the next game.
Gamers are people and sometimes people have off days. Remember that the other person may not be meaning to be a Dick. Their action may just be them trying to lash out because of issues in their personal life. Just as in any relationship, open communication and a willingness to listen will be your best friend.

How do you handle Players or GMs that are Dicks? Please share your experiences using the comments below.  

Friday, June 1, 2012

Mature Gaming - Play Responsibly


I have been gaming for the last 20 years. When I first started, it was all about hack and slash dungeon crawls. The only thing I wanted was enough experience to level up and get more loot (preferably cool loot). Slowly, but surely, we added more to the game. First we added puzzles and riddles. Then we added more role playing and less roll playing. Then one day, without warning, we added adult situations.

I was probably 17 or 18, old enough to go to an R rated film on my own. I still remember the game. At the time, my game of choice was Vampire: the Masquerade. We were starting a game in the Dark Ages and a good friend decided to make a child vampire. When he first proposed the idea to me, I thought it would be cool. Then came the moment where he introduced himself to the party. He had been a vampire for a bit, and it had really twisted him. And how he described himself was so vivid that it caused some of the other players to feel uncomfortable. After the first game session, some of them complained to me about their new pack mate. I talked with him and asked him to tone it down. As the game progressed, he would set in motion these truly horrific things. I was fine with them, but again other players were not and we eventually lost two of them because of it.

I didn’t realize then that for some folks, the world of the imagination can become real. It can cause nightmares. And in some cases it can push buttons that trigger emotional responses. It never occurred to me, because during that game, I knew it was fiction. I was aware that it was just a game and inside I chastised the players that were uncomfortable.

About a year ago, I found myself in a similar position. This time, I was a player instead of the guy in charge of the game. And instead of being haunted by the actions of another player, I was instead tormented by the actions of our game master. He wasn’t graphic about what happened to one of my fellow players. But the end result was known to us all. And I became so upset by it I didn’t want to return to the game. It wasn’t even my character, but I felt violated by the words and imagination of another person.

I have shared these stories with other gamers and have met with differing responses. Some have shared that adult situations like these have no place in a game where the goal is to have fun. Others have said that it was good that things happened, but that how they were handled was poor. I agree with both of these.

Most of us game as a past time, something to do to escape our daily lives. A time to gather with friends and enjoy the stories we tell together. And depending on the group, moving your game into mature territory can be fun and rewarding. Sometimes it can provide a way to work through things that have been bothering you or help you figure out how to handle something. But knowing where the line is and knowing how to deal with it is key.

One of the best suggestions I ever received on this topic is the idea of creating a social contract between the players and the game master. Basically each player shares what they are totally ok with, what they might have issue with, and what they absolutely don’t want to have happen to their character or someone near them. I think taking one night, perhaps after you have created your character but before the game has actually begun, to discuss these as a group is crucial to the success of the game. This helps the GM to know where his/her players are at as well as what each individual’s social boundaries are is important. And it may happen that during this time, the group decides they want to keep the game G, PG or PG-13. And that is fine.

Now the thing about using social contracts is the understanding that everyone has the right to change their minds. A player may encounter a situation that you have presented that tweaked them the wrong way. Sometimes a scene or even a reaction to something in the scene may set someone off in a way that was unexpected, even by them. Be prepared for this. If you have an intense scene that happens, take a break afterwards. Check in on your players and see how everyone is doing. Your group may be used to playing for 4 hours a night and you are only an hour or two in. But you may need to stop where you are and just talk. This is ok. Also, for those people that are snobbish about staying in character during the game, understand that sometimes after a really vivid scene people may need to just crack jokes and laugh. Everyone handles stress differently. Most importantly, don’t do what I did. Do not use your own social or moral compass to decide when enough is enough.

I personally don’t think that gamers should shy away from the tough subjects. When you are in a group of friends, this type of gaming can be therapeutic in its own way. It can allow you to deal with things from your childhood, issues that get your goat, or even make you realize that you do have a heart after all. But each group is different and the most important thing is to understand the dynamics of the people you are with and prepare appropriately.


If anyone has additional comments regarding mature gaming, feel free to comment below. I hope to be running a panel on this topic during MisCon 27 and would love to hear what other people think.